This topic contains 36 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  TheWireMaster 16 hours, 47 minutes ago.

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  • #9363
     TheWireMaster 
    Keymaster

    I was thinking about this since the first day of nxtfolks.com (for who doesn’t know, that was the former name of this website) but now I could finally put this together by myself!!!
    So, let me try to explain that… πŸ˜€

    The basic idea is that there is a points system that gives you points according to the actions you do on Ardor Rocks. You post a thing, you get a point… You create a forum topic, you get some points, etc, etc…
    But the best part is that these points will convert to an asset on Ardor.
    So basically you will receive a corresponding amount of this asset I will create from a dedicated Ardor account, matching the amount of points you have on Ardor Rocks!
    Because of that, please update your Ardor address in your profile!
    Already now you can see the amount of points you have collected by checking the amount under your profile picture when you open your profile page.
    I’m finalising a few things but I think that it will not take long until the asset transfer could start going through, depending on the feedbacks I get.
    Please be aware that assets will not be transferred for every point you collect. It will happen at regular check cycles and when users have reached chunks of 100 points (at the moment, could change in the future). So once you have more than 100 points you’ll get your first payment at the first check cycle, then you’ll get the next payment once you reach more than 200 points, and so on…
    This is still very experimental, so the amount of points assigned for each task and the way the payments are done might change in the future.
    But points don’t get lost! So you can start collecting them right now on Ardor Rocks!
    Have fun but don’t spam! Big brother is watching you so you’re not allowed to play unfair.

    I would love to get your feedback on this. Maybe there is stuff that I didn’t think about that might be important to consider when attempting something like this.
    Also please keep in mind that my only motivation to do this is to do good to Ardor and its community, but if you think that this would harm because it would interfere with the official forum or with other channels that we are currently trying to use, as reddit or stackexchange, please raise your concerns because that’s not the goal here.

    • This topic was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by  TheWireMaster.
    • This topic was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by  TheWireMaster.
  • #9370
     TheWireMaster 
    Keymaster

    After testing as much as I could, yesterday I created the account and the asset that will be distributed for the Ardor Rocks reward system.
    The account that will be distributing the reward is: ARDOR-RQCK-SFQ8-4PAX-FLTZX πŸ˜‰
    The asset is: 8980081323442307 (ROCKS)
    The script that checks if the payment threshold (100 or multiples of 100) has been reached runs twice a day, at 11:00 and 23:00 CEST time.
    Make sure that you set your Ardor account in your profile and start using Ardor Rocks!
    Until end of 2018, points will be double of what I initially thought, so for example, posting something in your activity feed will give you 2 points instead of 1.
    There might be still some changes in the setting of the points depending on how it all works after some action starts.
    Make sure that your Account is initialized otherwise the payments will not be issued. To do that make an outgoing payment or transfer funds to your account adding also the public key provided in the header that appears when the new account is created.
    To install the Ardor client, please visit: https://www.jelurida.com/
    There is also a fully featured “lite” wallet here https://ardor.tools/client
    Hope you like it!

  • #9377
     TheWireMaster 
    Keymaster

    Under the Members menu, you’ll find a submenu with the leaderboard: https://ardor.rocks/leaderboard/
    Under you own profile page (you can click on your picture to reach that) you’ll also find your own points history.
    Please ignore the history up to today which could be incorrect.

  • #9378
     TheWireMaster 
    Keymaster

    added the ROCKS asset ID in the header and the link to the ardor.tools blockchain explorer:
    https://ardor.tools/asset/8980081323442307

  • #9379
     shugo 
    Participant

    I really like your idea and the implementation. Activity should be rewarded.

    But how does the asset keep value? I like the idea to use the amount of assets for voting power on community votes or ardor.rocks votes.

    To prevent that someone gets to many assets and therefore to much voting power, we could burn the assets used for the vote and everyone could define the amount of assets he want to use for the vote.

    But I guess this is very difficult to implement from technical perspective?

    • #9380
       TheWireMaster 
      Keymaster

      Yes, not sure that’s easy to implement… 😐 Also it depends if there will be things to vote on ardor.rocks.
      One use I can imagine for the token is to pay for ads on the website or maybe we can think about a marketplace where you can purchase goods/services with it directly on this website. Or sponsored posts.
      But, yes… the utility of the token is something that needs some thoughts. I’m sure we’ll come up with some super cool idea!

  • #9381
     shugo 
    Participant

    Well for that to happen we need a sponsor who pays for the token. Otherwise with no use, the tokens do not have monetary value.

    But hey, not everything needs monetary value:)

    • #9382
       TheWireMaster 
      Keymaster

      So here is my vision.. if it’s completely out of the world then please let me know. 😜
      The more users use ardor.rocks and the more quality content is produced (blog posts, forum topics, etc) the more the website gains value. That value is basically distributed to users using it via the ROCKS asset.
      Now let suppose that the website gets very popular and next year someone wants to put an ad on.
      ROCKS tokens will be distributed by then and someone will start selling them on the Asset Exchange.
      The person that wants to publish an ad will have to pay with ROCKS after buying them from the Asset Exchange. We only accept ROCKS. πŸ™‚
      We can then use the ROCKS received to maintain the website and pay for fees for the reward transactions.
      Does that make sense? Could that trigger a micro-economy around the website?

      Otherwise, ROCKS are a very cool asset to hold, also without value! Eheh..

  • #9387
     shugo 
    Participant

    I like the idea, but it is a long and hard way to go (if we get there)….

    If you look at the other Ardor sites, forum or slack, there is almost no community/participation.

    Lets start a merchandise shop here (on Ignis). Everything Ardor branded, even Up and Running Ardor nodes. Everything in ROCKS (or AROCK? πŸ™‚ ). But the merchandise has to be bought by a sponsor at first.

    • #9388
       TheWireMaster 
      Keymaster

      That’s true. But what if the website would not be exclusively ardor, Ignis or nxt related? What if someone starts a group on knitting (just an example), it would anyway require the users to create an Ardor account which will bring them in the ardor world. πŸ˜‰
      Regarding the merchandising maybe you have to explain that better to me. But you just triggered a design idea I will do as soon as I’m back home for a t-shirt with the bus! 😁
      If we have merchandising for sale, why would we need a sponsor to buy them first? Sorry, not sure I can follow your idea.

    • #9389
       TheWireMaster 
      Keymaster

      Ok… Knitting is a bit extreme… 😁
      Let’s say… Bitcoin or Ethereum…

  • #9394
     shugo 
    Participant

    I didnt know we already have merchandise:) – but someone has to pay that anyway right?

    Sorry for beeing sceptical but why should someone use the site for blogging etc. when there are 1000 alternatives? We need to provide some extra benefits, one which may be ROCKS:)

    Other thought: What if we provide an ecosystem, not a site. Someone could implement our structure with the reward system on the blockchain to their existing sites like wordpress, like a plugin? Or what do you think?

    • #9409
       TheWireMaster 
      Keymaster

      Would be fantastic to have such a plugin so that the same reward system could be used on more websites! πŸ‘
      Of course the problem are the fees and who pays those. Also how to pay the same asset if points are accumulated on different sites. So in the case of ardor.rocks I will take care of the fees and I have control of the account owning the asset. Also if the goal is to add account control so that there is an extra layer of security against hacks.
      But I think that this is the next evolution of Blockchain… Started with BAT and steemit and what will hopefully happen soon with https://epic.town (Adel project)
      Maybe that shift in how social media works will happen earlier than we think! Or at least that’s what I hope! πŸ˜‰

    • #9447
       TheWireMaster 
      Keymaster

      What do you think about the first draft of the Ardor Rocks T-Shirt? πŸ˜€
      ArdorRocksTShirt2

    • #9474
       TheWireMaster 
      Keymaster

      Actually re-thinking about the plugin idea, I think it’s a very cool thing.
      It could be an add-on to “points plugin” (myCred) I use where website administrator, once the add-on is installed, can set the account holding the asset, the passphrase, the asset ID, the address of the node being used for the transactions.
      When Installing the add-on, it automatically adds the Ardor Address field to the profile of users.
      If you extend the idea, you can then add these assets as a payment method in some shopping plugins, like woocommerce.
      I’m now speaking about wordpress, but maybe the same could be done on other platforms.

    • #9475
       shugo 
      Participant

      Yes thats good, think big!:)

      But I would not know how to code this:(

    • #9476
       TheWireMaster 
      Keymaster

      Me neither! 😁
      But I can try or we need to ask the coders in our community!
      Anyway maybe it’s worth to wait and see how this ardor.rocks experiment develops!

  • #9424
     TheWireMaster 
    Keymaster

    Current user earned points and rewards per action have been doubled! πŸ™‚
    This new points structure will remain till end of the year!
    Enjoy!

  • #9545
     TheWireMaster 
    Keymaster

    Just a reminder that the current points structure will be in place till end of the year. After that, points per action will be halved.
    So Rocking now is more rewarding than rocking later! 🀘

  • #9569
     TheWireMaster 
    Keymaster

    I’m currently working on a like button that gives points to the author of the post, action, forum, reply, etc
    I hope to activate that soon!
    More quality content, more points, more ROCKS!
    Stay tuned!

    • #9571
       Martin R 
      Participant

      Re: “I’m currently working on a like button”

      Like πŸ˜‰

    • #9575
       TheWireMaster 
      Keymaster

      Soon!!! Very soon!!! It will not be perfect but it will be a start!

  • #9570
     TheWireMaster 
    Keymaster

    Reward payouts is now happening 4 times a day instead of 2! πŸ™‚
    Have a good day!

  • #9578
     TheWireMaster 
    Keymaster

    There it is!
    The like (rocket) button appeared!
    It’s not perfect as I cannot manage to let a like posted on a single article of forum topic be reflected in the mail page of the site where all updates are visible.
    So the solution at the moment is that the like button is only available on the main page where all actions are visible.
    I hope I find a solution later to make this better.
    But after all we are experimenting here… so happy liking! πŸ™‚

  • #9579
     TheWireMaster 
    Keymaster

    And I just realized that accidentally I removed the points for the forum activities some time ago. πŸ™
    Sorry for all the forum contributors so far. Now points for forum activities should be working again.

  • #9580
     TheWireMaster 
    Keymaster

    What I am planning next.
    1 – try to improve the like button so that it appears also in other sections of the website and not only in the main activity stream and likes are synced a amongst sections;
    2 – an Ad management platform. Basically a tool for people wanting to advertise on Ardor Rocks and only payable with ROCKS tokens.
    The point 2 might be a challenge but it might be very interesting from the economics point of view around Ardor Rocks. This is how I see this work:
    – Contributors get rewarded with ROCKS
    – once enough ROCKS are distributed they will start to be traded and sold on the Asset Exchange
    – more people will join because of the reward and not only strictly interested in Ardor related topics
    – enough people on the website means more interest of advertisers to buy ROCKS to pay for advertising spaces
    – I (if this works not only me) receive the ROCKS paid for the Ads which I will then sell to maintain the website and make it a sustainable business

    Just a reminder that I don’t keep a slice of ROCKS for myself… I just decide on the reward x action or top up for special cases (eg. some days ago to apologize for the dead server all users got 100 ROCKS), but the ROCKS I earn right now (before the Ad platform launches) are based on the same general rules applied to all participants.

    Any thoughts are welcome! πŸ€”

    And remember that the earlier we get those ROCKS spread the earlier we can really get this experiment up and running! πŸ˜‰

  • #9586
     shugo 
    Participant

    the ad idea is great but it needs a lot of site traffic.

    we dont have that yet but it would be important to test it/go live anyway:)

    • #9587
       TheWireMaster 
      Keymaster

      Absolutely! This is mainly about putting the foundations for the overall system. Then we need traffic! πŸ‘
      And maybe one day we just “port” the system to another website that is clearly more focused on non-crypto topics, but users will anyway be using Ardor because of the reward and Ads system.
      Let’s see…
      Still waiting for some more ROCKS to be distributed before creating, as you once inspired me by speaking about merchandising, the first item for sale in ROCKS. 😁 A nice t-shirt with the “rainbow bus” shown up this thread. Let’s see how that part of the experiment works… Giving tangible value to ROCKS for the first time.

  • #9588
     Moritz Warntjen 
    Participant

    Just some thoughts on the reward system: right now you reward activity. Let’s assume that the page views increase and someone wants to pay for ads. Then they will need to buy rocks. But as soon as there’s a price tag on the rocks people want to get rocks. And since you reward activity and not quality people will start gaming the system and just post nonsense to get rocks.
    Perhaps it might be better to then switch to reward only likes. Because then you will have higher quality content…
    What do you think?

    • #9589
       TheWireMaster 
      Keymaster

      That’s precisely the idea that will be implemented in Epic Town (https://epic.town/)!
      And that’s very true what you say, in fact also only keeping the “likes” as a reward mechanism, still you can have ways to cheat by creating multiple accounts and liking each-others posts.
      In fact for that case we are thinking about a way to limit this risk in Epic Town.
      I hope I can reveal a bit more about that project soon.

      In the case of Ardor Rocks it’s a work in progress, and I’m curious to see how it develops.
      This is why the reward payments are not so frequent, because in case of a cheat attempt there is time to block the user and remove the reward collected in a fraudulent way.
      On the other hand there are ways that one is not clearly cheating, like if someone always posts “yes”, “nice”, “ok”… on everything that is posted, then that’s also a way to collect reward and doing it without creating “value”.

      But what you suggest is something that we could actually do here. Maybe, as you mentioned, once the Ads system will go live, if ever it will go live. πŸ˜€
      That will dramatically reduce the amount of spam!
      Until then I hope that the current system attracts people to join and participate.
      Doesn’t seem to work so well I have to say… but we’re not in a hurry, right?

      Thank you for helping the brainstorm!

  • #9590
     Martin R 
    Participant

    Another option to keep up the value of the content could be the introduction of ‘dislike’. If you get too many of those, you content will be removed. But again, also in this option there are avenues for cheating… that could be tricky to avoid.

  • #9591
     Moritz Warntjen 
    Participant

    One system I really like, although I did not find a cool use case, is the “token curated registry” (TCR) https://medium.com/@ilovebagels/token-curated-registries-1-0-61a232f8dac7

    In the context of a social network (with a focus on high quality content) you could use this system to have certain user levels. The higher your user level the higher the visibility of your content and the higher your returns.

    For deciding who has which user level you could use the TCR system. Imagine you have the levels bronze, silver and gold. If you want to become a level “bronze” user it could work like this:

    – you apply for bronze, show your previous content and put 100 tokens as deposit
    – all bronze users vote (weight according to their balance)
    – if they reject you, your tokens are distributed between all bronze users
    – if they accept you, you are a bronze user and the deposit remains yours.

    Your bronze status could also be challenged according to the TCR system.

    I think with this system you can avoid that users start gaming the points system.

    But it’s a complicated system and I’m not sure whether people really want to dive into it…

    PS: Here’s another article on levels: https://medium.com/cpl-blog/levels-for-tcrs-7816e38e0f95

    • #9593
       TheWireMaster 
      Keymaster

      This is definitely very interesting. Didn’t know about this before and will read more about it!

      The tricky part is to combine systems like TCR and simplicity.
      A good user, in my opinion, should be able to be recognized as such without having to proactively do much.
      But I will have to read more to fully understand the TCR concept! πŸ™‚

    • #9594
       TheWireMaster 
      Keymaster

      Speaking about reputation… By @riker! 😊
      β€œBlockchain Based Reputation System” by Lior Yaffe
      View story at Medium.com

      • This reply was modified 4 days, 3 hours ago by  TheWireMaster.
  • #9595
     Moritz Warntjen 
    Participant

    Yeah! Would love to hear your thoughts on TCR! I heard that one company is trying a system like that for an ads.
    View story at Medium.com

    • #9597
       TheWireMaster 
      Keymaster

      I’m reading about it and I think it’s a brilliant idea!
      It creates a perfect system to force all parties involved to play fairly in their role to keep a registry/list a quality one.
      But, yeah, it deserves a lot of thinking as the points raised in this last article are all valid! But good stuff to think about! πŸ‘

    • #9601
       TheWireMaster 
      Keymaster

      I’m wondering if we can introduce this somehow with the groups that you can create on this website.
      I just removed this morning the “hidden” groups that are not easy to control and could easily be used to collect many points and nobody noticing it. Better without.
      But the “private” groups can be, for example, some pools of experts and maybe we can try to combine the TCR concept with the private groups.
      Not sure though if that would create a first and second class member thing…

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